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Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 571 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43 ... 58  Next
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:33 am 
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I found that quite moving (but then I find the film "Taking Chance" quite moving every time I watch it).

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A trip along the Ho Chi Minh trail...


http://www.laosgpsmap.com/ho-chi-minh-trail-laos/

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Chris O'Keefe
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HMAS Nirimba X 4 -Penguin-Sydney-Queenborough - Creswell - Moreton - Stalwart - Platypus - Coonawarra Reconstruction Team 76 - Platypus - Hobart - Cerberus - FHQ - Coonawarra.

Anyone can be ordinary. Shipwrights choose to be extraordinary!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:55 am 
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Oscar Brand sings about Vietnam War, Mariposa 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvFD4tZ4JuE

Bell Bottom Trousers - Bawdy Sea Shanty (1958 version by Oscar Brand)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD5vnEyKPQQ

Save a Fighter Pilots Ass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=723byD_0UrQ

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USS Trenton LPD-14, Hermitage LSD-34, Shreveport LPD-12, Saipan LHA-2, COMPHRIBRON-4 staff embarked in the Guam LPH 2, Saipan LHA-2, Nashville LPD-13, and Wasp LHD-1
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 Post subject: Re: The Vietnam Era
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:05 pm 
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A light hearted look at a sad time in our lives:


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Chris O'Keefe
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July 65 to July 85
HMAS Nirimba X 4 -Penguin-Sydney-Queenborough - Creswell - Moreton - Stalwart - Platypus - Coonawarra Reconstruction Team 76 - Platypus - Hobart - Cerberus - FHQ - Coonawarra.

Anyone can be ordinary. Shipwrights choose to be extraordinary!


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 Post subject: Re: The Vietnam Era
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:39 pm 
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These are interesting (US) statistics about the Vietnam War and very good military site web site. It is a real keeper for any Vietnam vet.
I liked the wannabe stats of the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country was: 9,492,958.
It seems there were more favourable results of the war than what was reported by the American press.

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Vietnam War: Facts, Stats & Myths :type: http://www.uswings.com/vietnamfacts.asp

Credit: Capt. Marshal Hanson, USNR (Ret.) and Capt. Scott Beaton, Statistical Source
________________________________________

9,087,000 military personnel served on active duty during the official Vietnam era from August 5, 1964 to May 7, 1975.
2,709,918 Americans served in uniform in Vietnam.
Vietnam Veterans represented 9.7% of their generation.
240 men were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War.

The first man to die in Vietnam was James Davis, in 1961. He was with the 509th Radio Research Station. Davis Station in Saigon was named for him.
58,148 were killed in Vietnam.
75,000 were severely disabled.
23,214 were 100% disabled.
5,283 lost limbs.
1,081 sustained multiple amputations.

Of those killed, 61% were younger than 21.
11,465 of those killed were younger than 20 years old.
Of those killed, 17,539 were married.
Average age of men killed: 23.1 years.
Five men killed in Vietnam were only 16 years old.
The oldest man killed was 62 years old.

As of January 15, 2004, there are 1,875 Americans still unaccounted for from the Vietnam War.
97% of Vietnam Veterans were honorably discharged.
91% of Vietnam Veterans say they are glad they served.
74% say they would serve again, even knowing the outcome.

Vietnam veterans have a lower unemployment rate than the same non-vet age groups.
Vietnam veterans' personal income exceeds that of our non-veteran age group by more than 18 percent.

87% of Americans hold Vietnam Veterans in high esteem.
There is no difference in drug usage between Vietnam Veterans and non-Vietnam Veterans of the same age group (Source: Veterans Administration Study).
Vietnam Veterans are less likely to be in prison - only one-half of one percent of Vietnam Veterans have been jailed for crimes.
85% of Vietnam Veterans made successful transitions to civilian life.
________________________________________

Common Myths Dispelled:

Myth: Common belief is that most Vietnam veterans were drafted.
Fact: 2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers. 2/3 of the men who served in World War II were drafted. Approximately 70% of those killed in Vietnam were volunteers.

Myth: The media have reported that suicides among Vietnam veterans range from 50,000 to 100,000 - 6 to 11 times the non-Vietnam veteran population.
Fact: Mortality studies show that 9,000 is a better estimate. "The CDC Vietnam Experience Study Mortality Assessment showed that during the first 5 years after discharge, deaths from suicide were 1.7 times more likely among Vietnam veterans than non-Vietnam veterans. After that initial post-service period, Vietnam veterans were no more likely to die from suicide than non-Vietnam veterans. In fact, after the 5-year post-service period, the rate of suicides is less in the Vietnam veterans' group.

Myth: Common belief is that a disproportionate number of blacks were killed in the Vietnam War.
Fact: 86% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasians, 12.5% were black, 1.2% were other races. Sociologists Charles C. Moskos and John Sibley Butler, in their recently published book "All That We Can Be," said they analyzed the claim that blacks were used like cannon fodder during Vietnam "and can report definitely that this charge is untrue. Black fatalities amounted to 12 percent of all Americans killed in Southeast Asia, a figure proportional to the number of blacks in the U.S. population at the time and slightly lower than the proportion of blacks in the Army at the close of the war."

Myth: Common belief is that the war was fought largely by the poor and uneducated.
Fact: Servicemen who went to Vietnam from well-to-do areas had a slightly elevated risk of dying because they were more likely to be pilots or infantry officers. Vietnam Veterans were the best educated forces our nation had ever sent into combat. 79% had a high school education or better.

Myth: The common belief is the average age of an infantryman fighting in Vietnam was 19.
Fact: Assuming KIAs accurately represented age groups serving in Vietnam, the average age of an infantryman (MOS 11B) serving in Vietnam to be 19 years old is a myth, it is actually 22. None of the enlisted grades have an average age of less than 20. The average man who fought in World War II was 26 years of age.

Myth: The common belief is that the domino theory was proved false.
Fact: The domino theory was accurate. The ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) countries, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand stayed free of Communism because of the U.S. commitment to Vietnam. The Indonesians threw the Soviets out in 1966 because of America's commitment in Vietnam. Without that commitment, Communism would have swept all the way to the Malacca Straits that is south of Singapore and of great strategic importance to the free world. If you ask people who live in these countries that won the war in Vietnam, they have a different opinion from the American news media. The Vietnam War was the turning point for Communism.

Myth: The common belief is that the fighting in Vietnam was not as intense as in World War II.
Fact: The average infantryman in the South Pacific during World War II saw about 40 days of combat in four years. The average infantryman in Vietnam saw about 240 days of combat in one year thanks to the mobility of the helicopter. One out of every 10 Americans who served in Vietnam was a casualty. 58,148 were killed and 304,000 wounded out of 2.7 million who served. Although the percent that died is similar to other wars, amputations or crippling wounds were 300 percent higher than in World War II. 75,000 Vietnam veterans are severely disabled. MEDEVAC helicopters flew nearly 500,000 missions. Over 900,000 patients were airlifted (nearly half were American). The average time lapse between wounding to hospitalization was less than one hour. As a result, less than one percent of all Americans wounded, who survived the first 24 hours, died. The helicopter provided unprecedented mobility. Without the helicopter it would have taken three times as many troops to secure the 800 mile border with Cambodia and Laos (the politicians thought the Geneva Conventions of 1954 and the Geneva Accords or 1962 would secure the border).

Myth: Kim Phuc, the little nine year old Vietnamese girl running naked from the napalm strike near Trang Bang on 8 June 1972 (shown a million times on American television) was burned by Americans bombing Trang Bang.
Fact: No American had involvement in this incident near Trang Bang that burned Phan Thi Kim Phuc. The planes doing the bombing near the village were VNAF (Vietnam Air Force) and were being flown by Vietnamese pilots in support of South Vietnamese troops on the ground. The Vietnamese pilot who dropped the napalm in error is currently living in the United States. Even the AP photographer, Nick Ut, who took the picture, was Vietnamese. The incident in the photo took place on the second day of a three day battle between the North Vietnamese Army (NVA) who occupied the village of Trang Bang and the ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) who were trying to force the NVA out of the village. Recent reports in the news media that an American commander ordered the air strike that burned Kim Phuc are incorrect. There were no Americans involved in any capacity. "We (Americans) had nothing to do with controlling VNAF," according to Lieutenant General (Ret) James F. Hollingsworth, the Commanding General of TRAC at that time. Also, it has been incorrectly reported that two of Kim Phuc's brothers were killed in this incident. They were Kim's cousins not her brothers.

Myth: The United States lost the war in Vietnam.
Fact: The American military was not defeated in Vietnam. The American military did not lose a battle of any consequence. From a military standpoint, it was almost an unprecedented performance. General Westmoreland quoting Douglas Pike (a professor at the University of California, Berkeley), a major military defeat for the VC and NVA.
________________________________________

Statistics from the Combat Area Casualty File (CACF) as of November 1993 (the CACF is the basis for the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, aka The Wall)

Average age of 58,148 killed in Vietnam was 23.11 years (Although 58,169 names are in the Nov. 93 database, only 58,148 have both event date and birth date. Event date is used instead of declared dead date for some of those who were listed as missing in action).
Deaths Average Age
• Total: 58,148, 23.11 years
• Enlisted: 50,274, 22.37 years
• Officers: 6,598, 28.43 years
• Warrants: 1,276, 24.73 years
• E1 525, 20.34 years
• 11B MOS: 18,465, 22.55 years
________________________________________

Interesting Census Stats and "Been There" Wanabees:

1,713,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of August, 1995 (census figures).
• During that same Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country was: 9,492,958.
• As of the current Census taken during August, 2000, the surviving U.S. Vietnam Veteran population estimate is: 1,002,511. This is hard to believe, losing nearly 711,000 between '95 and '00. That's 390 per day. During this Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is: 13,853,027. By this census, FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO BE VIETNAM VETS ARE NOT.

The Department of Defense Vietnam War Service Index officially provided by The War Library originally reported with errors that 2,709,918 U.S. military personnel as having served in-country. Corrections and confirmations to this errored index resulted in the addition of 358 U.S. military personnel confirmed to have served in Vietnam but not originally listed by the Department of Defense (All names are currently on file and accessible 24/7/365).

Isolated atrocities committed by American Soldiers produced torrents of outrage from anti-war critics and the news media while Communist atrocities were so common that they received hardly any media mention at all. The United States sought to minimize and prevent attacks on civilians while North Vietnam made attacks on civilians a centerpiece of its strategy. Americans who deliberately killed civilians received prison sentences while Communists who did so received commendations. From 1957 to 1973, the National Liberation Front assassinated 36,725 Vietnamese and abducted another 58,499. The death squads focused on leaders at the village level and on anyone who improved the lives of the peasants such as medical personnel, social workers, and school teachers. - Nixon Presidential Papers.
________________________________________

The United States Did Not Lose The War In Vietnam, The South Vietnamese Did. Read On...
The fall of Saigon happened 30 April 1975, two years AFTER the American military left Vietnam. The last American troops departed in their entirety 29 March 1973.

How could we lose a war we had already stopped fighting? We fought to an agreed stalemate. The peace settlement was signed in Paris on 27 January 1973. It called for release of all U.S. prisoners, withdrawal of U.S. forces, limitation of both sides' forces inside South Vietnam and a commitment to peaceful reunification. The 140,000 evacuees in April 1975 during the fall of Saigon consisted almost entirely of civilians and Vietnamese military, NOT American military running for their lives. There were almost twice as many casualties in Southeast Asia (primarily Cambodia) the first two years after the fall of Saigon in 1975 than there were during the ten years the U.S. was involved in Vietnam. Thanks for the perceived loss and the countless assassinations and torture visited upon Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians goes mainly to the American media and their undying support-by-misrepresentation of the anti-War movement in the United States.

As with much of the Vietnam War, the news media misreported and misinterpreted the 1968 Tet Offensive. It was reported as an overwhelming success for the Communist forces and a decided defeat for the U.S. forces. Nothing could be further from the truth. Despite initial victories by the Communists forces, the Tet Offensive resulted in a major defeat of those forces. General Vo Nguyen Giap, the designer of the Tet Offensive, is considered by some as ranking with Wellington, Grant, Lee and MacArthur as a great commander. Still, militarily, the Tet Offensive was a total defeat of the Communist forces on all fronts. It resulted in the death of some 45,000 NVA troops and the complete, if not total destruction of the Viet Cong elements in South Vietnam. The Organization of the Viet Cong Units in the South never recovered. The Tet Offensive succeeded on only one front and that was the News front and the political arena. This was another example in the Vietnam War of an inaccuracy becoming the perceived truth. However, inaccurately reported, the News Media made the Tet Offensive famous.

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 Post subject: Re: The Vietnam Era
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:45 am 
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A Saigon Christmas By Commander Ed Bookhardt, US Navy, Retired

It was a rainy Sunday afternoon in December. Passing showers that had temporarily cleansed the rancid air now rose in a vaporous haze from the hot wet pavement. I leaned forward, resting my forearms on the parapet that surrounded the roofed-over canteen atop the Rex Hotel. Alone, I tried to organize my thoughts. I had been struggling for several days to fend off those all too familiar Christmas blues. At the same time, I was despising myself for it was against my nature to get down in the dumps. As I pondered, a strong breeze off the Saigon River began to rustle the treetops along the main thoroughfare. I traced its path until I felt its coolness on my face. It was a welcome relief to the stagnancy that prevailed.

The Rex located in central Saigon, was initially leased by the Army to house Military Advisors at the onset of the United States’ military commitment to the Republic of Vietnam. “The Roof” or “Top of the Rex,” soon became a favorite watering hole for GIs. Sunday afternoon was usually my only free time, so I would go to the Rex when not on travel to other Corps areas. I felt somewhat at ease there, as I did not have to watch my back and it was within walking distance of my billet.

Unknown at that time, Saigon was enjoying the final weeks of its relative isolationism. Except for an occasional rocket lobed in from the rice-paddies, infrequent sapper attacks and car bombings, the city to date had been spared the brunt of the war. With a half-million GIs in country, it was riding the crest of a booming military supported prosperity. An uncanny feeling of gayety existed. This euphoria was further bolstered by MACV’s General Westmoreland’s announcement that Allied Forces were winning the struggle with the Viet Cong. From where I stood on that damp dismal Sunday, the shooting war did indeed seem strangely remote…the looming “Tet Offensive” would soon change the city and the lives within forever.

Gazing over the wall, the stench from garbage, waste and diesel fumes rose up to meet me. A myriad of vehicles, primarily military, motorcycles and pedi-cabs darted in crisscrossing patterns through the choked overtaxed intersection below. The masses of humanity rushing about in that familiar oriental shuffle, meshed with the traffic like some muted woven tapestry. This bustling tempo was in sharp contrast to the ragged half-naked refugees squatting in hopeless despair in hidden crannies and alleyways.

Watching the human drama unfold, I was lulled into deep reflection by the rhythmic patter of rain on the hotel roof. Watching the droplets trickle from the overhanging eaves, my thoughts turned to family. How were they coping? Was there illness or financial woes? The two oldest children were teenagers, a critical time for parental guidance; it stirred my fatherly concern. Had I set the moral example and provided the character building they needed to meet the temptations before them? There were so many troubling questions to brood over. The family was near relatives while I was deployed, so I did not dwell on the Christmas issue. We had endured numerous holiday separations over the previous twenty-years…that was Navy life. Yet no matter how hard-shelled you think you are, one still becomes melancholy…

A sudden gust of rain quickly brought me back to reality. Jumping back from the wall, I brushed the droplets from my wash-khakis, took my empty glass to the bar and bought another scotch. Subsisting on my combat pay alone I sorely needed a boost in the finance department…so I decided to try the ten-cent slots. Sauntering over to the machines nestled among some neglected potted shrubbery I choose machine number nineteen. On the nineteenth I would have six months in Vietnam and had a hunch the number would bring me luck…it didn’t.

From my position at the machines, I could look out over tables filled with a collage of uniforms; cammies, greens, fatigues, khakis and civvies to a small stage decorated with tinsel and two gaudy artificial Christmas trees. A young Korean group, “The K-Tones” sponsored by the USO took the stage. They could not speak English, yet began playing and singing American pop songs. With jet-black ducktail hair, flashing teeth and gyrations ala Elvis, they were real showmen. The only problem was their enunciation of mimicked lyrics. They could not overcome the harsh “sing-song” nasally twang common among Orientals.

As I remember, their rendition of the Los Bravos hit “Black is black…I want my baby back.” sounded something like, “Block ish block, aaww vant mi bobbie bock.” Now, imagine their attempt at Christmas carols! It was absolutely hilarious! The crowd loved them; particularly the one with Hollywood sunglasses, quivering lips and pork-chop side burns! To this day, and I have absolutely no explanation for it, flashbacks of that rainy Sunday will appear. I can see Saigon, the Rex, the K-Tones and the milling throngs in vivid detail…like some broken record, “Block ish block, aaww vant mi bobbie bock…” will turn over and over in the recesses of my aging mind…

A couple of my cohorts, Bob Wilson and Jim Ammons joined me and we proceeded to celebrate the season and my six months in country. We got quite mellow. Hell, it was a health issue; one had to build a resistance to the rampant diseases of Southeast Asia. Moreover, I had another weeklong trip to Cam Ranh Bay, Qui Nhon and Da Nang before Christmas. To fly in one of our old DC-3s, affectionately dubbed “Star Ships,” required a certain amount of liquid courage. J&B was also a noted snake/insect repellent…therefore a requirement in case BWA’s [Baling-wire Airlines] Star Ship had to make an unscheduled landing somewhere in the Central Highlands! A good Navy man is always prepared…

There were some sixty officers on the Admiral’s staff. Each brought a small wrapped gift, to the Mess on Christmas Eve for appropriately enough, a Chinese Christmas… my first! It was a system of gift exchanges, which I have yet to figure out? If someone with a certain number, liked your gift better than his, he could take yours and give you his…you in turn could take someone else’s, and so on and so on… By evening’s end, I wound up with a splitting headache, a feeling of being had, and a pair of bent metal-shoetrees which I have to this day!

In a distant hostile land on that memorable eve, I experienced one of the most heartwarming Christmases of my life. Military men sharing the gamut of human emotions: laughter, tears, happiness, sadness, but above all, sharing a bond of enduring comradeship…a magical brotherhood that is known but to few men. In the purest sense, we were family…kindred by chosen profession. A few of us die-hards hung on until well past midnight ushering in the birthday of Christ. With bear hugs and best wishes we went off to our bunks, each to deal in his own way with the uncertainties within.

The white phosphorus star-shells that routinely illuminated the distant nighttime sky turned the interior of my tiny cubical a ghostly hue. Eerie shadows crept across the walls as each luminary descended beyond the horizon. Extremely restless and unable to sleep, I finally rose and went to the window. The gleaming light seemed somehow symbolic of the biblical story of the Magi and the Star of Bethlehem… As the last shell gradually faded and flickered-out, faint slivers of reddish-orange and gold appeared in the eastern sky…dawn was breaking over the Pearl of the Orient…it was Christmas Day 1967.

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Joined the Navy Jan 6, 1970, retired Jan 31, 1994
USS Trenton LPD-14, Hermitage LSD-34, Shreveport LPD-12, Saipan LHA-2, COMPHRIBRON-4 staff embarked in the Guam LPH 2, Saipan LHA-2, Nashville LPD-13, and Wasp LHD-1
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 Post subject: Re: The Vietnam Era
PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:57 am 
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My Daddy Cries on the 4th of July

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... BC0CfYnVjk


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Wayne Johnson
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Joined the Navy Jan 6, 1970, retired Jan 31, 1994
USS Trenton LPD-14, Hermitage LSD-34, Shreveport LPD-12, Saipan LHA-2, COMPHRIBRON-4 staff embarked in the Guam LPH 2, Saipan LHA-2, Nashville LPD-13, and Wasp LHD-1
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 Post subject: Re: The Vietnam Era
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:09 am 
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Vietnam War: Facts, Stats & Myths per www.uswings.com/vietnamfacts.asp
written (?) by Capt. Marshal Hanson, USNR (Ret.) and Capt. Scott Beaton

Interesting ? Yes, to a casual observer - but, after 50 years, not particularly academic.

It must be my age, and maybe my experience of the land war in South Vietnam, that makes me such a doubter when I read these unopposed, unchallenged accounts.

For example "The United States sought to minimize and prevent attacks on civilians ....... Americans who deliberately killed civilians received prison sentences ". I don't believe that many of the Americans who were part of the Phoenix Program, operating out of Van Kiep (I believe) where I lived, slept, worked, ate & drank for 6 weeks, received too many prison sentences for their efforts.

AND- "Myth: The United States lost the war in Vietnam ". It's not a myth - it's true. If the United States didn't lose the war in Vietnam, South Vietnam still would have continued to be known as South Vietnam after the 30th April 1975, wouldn't it ?.

Ker'ist goobers, give us a break !

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 Post subject: Re: The Vietnam Era
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:24 am 
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If my memory serves me right, there was no war between the US and Vietnam in 75. Wasn't it a government overthrow between the North & South about 3 years after the war had ended? :-k

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 Post subject: Re: The Vietnam Era
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:47 am 
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That's how I remember it, BC. Would the NVA have rolled through SVN with the US and her allies' armed forces still there? Of course not.

These history re-writers like Captains Hanson and Beaton conveniently overlook the fact that a cease-fire and accord had brokered an end to the war with borders to remain the same as 1962. Typically, it was the asian way to get what they (NVN) wanted, and that is lie through your teeth. :---)

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